Aninterview
with Arne Johan
Vetlesen,Professorofphilosophy
at theUniversityofOslo
Photo and text: Gorana
Ognjenovic
INTERVIEWER:
Why should we embrace Nietzsche’s critique? Why should we engage
ourselves in
social critique? Why arethere
less and less individuals who
dare to engage in this from for criticism? Isn’t the point with
the academic
world to conduct social critique? Why is it that once institutions are
confronted with the criticism their only reaction is repulsion? Is it
the case
that these institutions wouldrather
not know about anything outside
themselves?
VETLESEN:
Very many things are considered to be social critique today. Both Fremskrittspartiet(Norwegian
liberalist
party, hostile to immigrants)and
Marxists are apparently conducting the social critique. The point here
is that
social critique is a system critique, pointed towards social structure
in which
we live, especially considering the division of power and impotence.
Social
critique is critique of the established system of power, pointing out
those who
have power, how power is exercised and how power isestablished,
maintained and coordinated. It is something thebourgeoisie should
conduct all the time in relationship to the public authorities and
their social
power, as Jürgen Habermas describes it in his The
structural Transformation of the Public (1961). The usual
explanations for this are: indifference, apathy, impotence, etc., but
the
strange thing here is that social critique is conducted very little by
those
who have big resources and sit in power positions. There is too little
social
critique of conduct in this way by for example, University teachers. It
is
possible that we are nostalgic for times with much more activity;
Universities
were much more political in sixties and seventies. It
is a very important answer to the question, that those who have
resources and qualifications to participate actively in social debate
and
benefit the most from the status quo have no interest in changing the
system.
It is conducted in a small degree because they would feel threatened,
but still
not even that explains it completely. THERE
ARE TWO
PROBLEMS with society today. Most people have too much money and that
determines what is relevant or not and it takes too much energy. Energy
is used
to think what one should do with all that money. A very strong
materialism is
also practiced on behalf of one’s children. As result, political
criticism look
as something very different from what most people do, it appears
hopeless to
believe how it will make a difference to criticise injustice and equal
division
of wealth, either in Norway
or globally. Naomi Klein’s book No
Logo became known as soon as it came out in 2000 is agood reminder of how there is no
necessary connection between the real problems on one side and what we
are
engaged in on the other. What Klein points out, Nike’s slave
labour in Asia,
is probably even worse today than what it was described in her material
in the
end of 1990’s. At the same time the public interest to discuss
this, the
limelight for this slave labour is much more intense in 2005 than what
it was
in 2000. One of the reasons why theglobalization
critical movement Attack
has a little drive for the time being has a lot to do with 9/11-2001.
Cynically
expressed that was a ‘godsend’ to Bush and his
administration. 9/11 gave a new
direction to the American foreign and domestic politic. Yesterday we
saw an
example of how terror threats, liberal democracies fight against
terror, led by
Bush or Blair, misuses the breakdown to directly, by the help of the
new terror
laws, criminalise what we call social critique. Very soon it will be
forbidden
to give out handouts critical ofMcDonald’s
franchise, in front of McDonald’s in England.
That is a partial answer to the question: without much noise in public,
these
decisions were made after the 9/11-2001 and used by ‘thepowers that
be’ on national and international
level to introduce decisions which paragraph after paragraph sanction
the
radical rights. At the same time this cannot explain why more people do
not
talk about the phenomenon Klein pinpoints. It is important to say that
the globalization critical movement which
out of its own ambition can be a good example of power critical action,
social
critique today, how it has been marginalised during the recent yearswhiletheproblems have become worse during
the last five years.
PHILOSOPHICALLY,
theessence of
social critique is a mismatch
between concept and social reality. In Hegel’s logic, for example
a concept of being or vorden
on the most abstract level, or moral politically, a
concept of justice, as concepts have critical and normative function.
These
concepts should create a contrast to reality as we see it around us andshow us how these concepts as
normative ideals are not fulfilled. Thephilosopher’s
contribution to such a debate is creating concepts, for both, standards
and
criteria as critical tools to pinpoint the injustice, the unredeemed,
the
sanctioned, and the prevented within the social reality as we
experience it. Thephilosopher’s
contribution is to show how the potential for individuality, the good
life or asafe community or solidarity is
paralysed. In this way social critique is a discourse possible only
through a
negation, by pointing out that thestate
of affairs is not as it should
be. The demand that this should be opposed, a critic that is first and
foremost
negative, worthless, a valuable critique would have to show a final
idea of
justice. This demand had always beendoubtful,
a problem for European
philosophers, worst of all after the 1989, the fall of the wall. On one
side we
can say that as left oriented westerner one could criticise the
existing
socialism in Soviet block countries just as much as the right oriented,
liberal, conservative, capitalism criticised Soviet. A lot of Marxists
in these
societies who argued that theDDR
state was a perversion of Marx’s
idea were actually much more prosecuted than those with Christian
values,
conservative values, or those who clearly had capitalistic values,
because they
were seen as subversive power in society. It was the immanent criticism
of
socialism that was looked upon as dangerous. In the aftermath one can
conclude
that the collapse, the fact that model alternative to the capitalism
was
important. Whether you like it or not, the collapse was of importance
for the
set back of the left wing in Europe
because it created an ambiguous situation. On theonehand the
right wing could with big plausibility claim that there
is no good enough alternative to market liberal structure, the
alternative we
have had collapsed. On the otherhandit is also possible that this actually creates a
potential for a
sharp critique of the existing social model, market liberalism. What
became
clear is that wehavethe problems we
have now in a situation where world is determined by one single
economic model.
This means that since differences are only increasing, the ecological
crisis is
a bomb to be detonated, and problems are getting sharper instead of
diminishing
after 1989. Capitalism will have to answer for all this in another way todaythan
during the
Cold War and polarisation, conflict between the two existing systemsofsocialism and capitalism. Now there is
no use in blaming it on repressive socialistic or communistic model.
The
capitalistic model is operative even in China
even though China
is communistic. This time, the problems we are pinpointing, lead back
to the
single social model. One could imagine that now would be the good times
for
social critique because of the more structural causes, the problems
that are
obvious today, which should be much easier to identify than
in theperiod until the 1989.
From an
objective perspective this is a new kind of overview. The fact that
this had
not become politically potent, and that this model does not feel in any
way
threatened by anything, any ideological alternative, is due to the
influence on
the ideological level. In other words we are back to the main course in
social
critique, from Hegel, to Marx and up to theFrankfurtSchool,
namely themeaning of ideology,
social critique and ideology critic.
INTERVIEWER:
What about the sceptics? What about those who think that for
example Attack demonstrators are
actually hypocrites? That those young are demonstrating while their own
lifestyles, increasingconsumption
are so dependent on
exactly the industry they are demonstrating against, like for example
Nike?
According to the statistics exactly those youngsters who use the most
the
industry in order to create one’s image, identity and what ever
else? Isn’t the
problem here the fact that this is about the third party? Are they just
on an
emotional excursion, while straight after and during the demonstrations
they
consciously support the evil and therefore these demonstrations really
do not
have any emotional backbone that can take them on the next level?
VETLESEN: I
remember a photo of a demonstrator in Prague
or Genoa,
from one of those early demonstrations in Aftenposten (the
largest serious Norwegian newspaper). It was a photo of
youngster wearing Nike shoes. In Naomi Klein’s NoLogo Nike is
one of the worst slave drivers in Asia.
The article in Aftenposten was ridiculing the activist who thinks that
he is so
much more conscious then others, and at the same time he wears Nike
shoes, the
casual clothing and he drinks Coca-cola. After a while the objections
about
such contradictions for which ‘well to do’ western
youngsters with too much
money were responsible for became a ritual. TheAftenposten article
made fun of this way of participating in political demonstrations. The
more
subtle point besides making fun of the demonstrators was arguing that
we, the
rich in our part of the world, do not have the right to criticise
international
companies while being their best consumers. Their power is due to our
consumption.
So
where do we move from here? How can we overcome
this contradiction if you have political activists who are all the time
engaged
into taking consequences of these things through their own lifestyle,
people
who never buy Nike and never drink Cola? Ok they cannot then be accused
for a
contradiction, but I am still sceptical about how much can we actually
win in
this way. There are a few big
questions here: ‘What difference does it make for those powerless
and faceless’
in China
who work 15 hours a day, those who are allowed only once to go to the
bathroom
during the entire working day? Does it make any difference if
demonstrators in Oslowear Nike shoes or if they don’t?
‘Writ large’, a collective phenomenon a collective boycott
that Arundhati Roy
stands for could be effective if it is collectively large enough. She
argues
that the only way to influence multinational companies is to stop
buying their
products as the only way of opposing theirpower, because this is the only
language they understand. One shows one’s condemnation buy not
buying, not
supporting their industry, because one has to practice the power one
has. But I
think that there is something illusory about this. As long as I do not
go to
the MacDonald’s, or I do not buy
Nike or I do not drink CocaCola, I am not in contradiction with myself. I am as I
claim in
demonstration. Those are the last idealists with the good
consciousness, as
soul spirits that Hegel makes fun off. I would go as far as saying that
when
Attack people walk in Nike shoes expose themselves to the critique by
for
example Aftenposten, that there is a moment of truth in it. Is it so
much
better if they go to some other label? There is something illusory
about
accepting the premises such as that through the consumption and through
the
consumption understood as symbolic communication about individuality
and
identity you show who you are and which values politically and morally
you
stand for. That is the consume capitalist’s way, its own premise,
own logic. So
to think that if you only buy another label you are free from the
contradiction
is false. I do not think that the individual choices, from which shelf
in the
supermarket you pick out, has a genuine political meaning. It is
illusory to
think that that symbolic action has a genuine political value. There is
a
moment of truth in the fact that independent of thebehaviour of
private individuals, we as rich western citizens, participate
‘with both of our
feet and up to our necks’ in the injustice which stems from the
contradiction.
So, what can we do? Go through the illusory actions? Theanswer is NO; there are other
ways to
go. Instead of having a very good consciousness, not buying these
labels as aNorwegian consumer,
one should engage oneself in the
empowerment for those
who really suffer. Forget about cleaning in front of your own door
first. Think
big. Think that those who suffer have to be enlightened, made
conscious. Think
for example, how can I act from my own privileged position, use my
resources
and my energy to do this? This is also difficult because of the
paternalism
accusations, but that is another debate. I think that as thesituation is today, there are two tasks: 1. What can I
do in my
life? 2. What can we do for those whosufferthemost? What can I do in my privileged existence here? I
think that
there are two things that have to happen in parallel, and this is not
something
I make up, they are dictated by reality. Those whosuffer the most
have to get an opportunity for improvement, from economical living
standard to
real rights, everything that what was taken away from them according to
Naomi
Klein’s analyses. In our part of the world, we have to diminish
consumption and
materialism. This may sound trivial, something that everyone has to
realise,
but it is also the oppositeofthe goal that our society, de facto, and government has
denoted, namely the
goal of continuous economic growth. Social critique has to first of all
address
this goal of continuous economic growth, to show the freedom we have in
the
epoch of individualisation, which is based on theeconomic premise of
continuous economic growth, and point out that what we can be sure
about is
that if the economic growth and consumption in the West continues it
will result
in a collapse. The clearest fact about this collapse is ecological in
character. There is almost no Rain Forest left. In 20 years there will
not be
Rain Forest left. The external nature gives its answer to our
collective
behaviour. Once the point is reached, either we like it or not, the
answer will
come to us in theform of
ecological collapse. The
ecological collapse will come parallel with eminent human forms of
crash, social chaos and
alienation. The argumentative prediction, saying that the judgement day
prophets were mistaken, cannot be taken into consideration because
never before
in history did we have precedence for the current global situation. We
do not
have any examples in history of this global situation now. We do not
have any
examples in history where there were so many people on Earth whose
average
consumption of resources was in such strong increase. The mismatch
between
population, consumption, and its tendency for increase, the growth on
one side
and theEarth’s
ecological capability on the other, was never in such
collision. Therefore nobody can fetch any relevant arguments from the
past.